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SDL moves to Github πŸ˜•
And I grew up during the heyday of the Free Software Foundation, so I know this is a trap, but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to be a server admin for something that’s held together with scotch tape and prayers when I’m really supposed to be writing OpenGL code.
β€Œhttps://nitter.nixnet.services/icculus/status/1359251060913807366

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#sdl
This entry was edited (3 years ago)

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clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
>> FWIW, Freedesktop’s GitLab might have been able to host you, if that was an option.
> A lot of people that asked for git really specifically wanted GitHub. :/
β€Œhttps://nitter.nixnet.services/icculus/status/1359286652015935490#m
Paolo Redaelli
Why not gitlab and other alternatives that are not a trap?
Elena ``of Valhalla''
gitlab is as much as a trap as github (which is: not completely, but significantly): it's the proprietaryΒΉ offering of a company that may arbitrarily change its terms of use and decide to abuse your data.

ΒΉ yes, there is a free software version of gitlab, I know quite a few people that use it and it works, but it doesn't have the full set of features available on gitlab com.
Paolo Redaelli
Oh my! Then what would you suggest to people who can't self-host git frontends?
@clacke
@clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Paolo Redaelli@Elena ``of Valhalla'' I disagree that Gitlab is anywhere near as much of a trap as Github. But they do seem to be adding more proprietary features lately.

A big project probably wants them and would have difficulty parting from them. That means gitlab.com is a bad place to get addicted to.

There are Gitlab CE hosts out there. The one I can think of off the cuff is framasoft's, but they're planning to shut it down at some point.

For my own code, I would (and do) host it at a Gitea host like @Codeberg.org .
@Elena ``of Valhalla'' @Paolo Redaelli
Elena ``of Valhalla''
I think that github is further out on the road to being evil, but there is nothing to suggest that gitlab isn't on the same road.
Elena ``of Valhalla''
Use a commercial git hosting offering, but be very careful on which features you are using and most importantly depending on.

git itself is not a big deal: migrating it from one hosting to another is trivial, but what about issues, pull/merge requests and their comments and everything else? Can you get them out of the hosting service and migrate them elsewhere? are you forced to keep using the same platform if you do? (e.g. moving from gitlab com to self-hosted gitlab)
Elena ``of Valhalla''
For my own personal repositories I have a gitolite instance, which provides just access to git repositories (with acl), and cgit as a web read-only frontend, and those are much easier to maintain than other fully featured platforms. Of course they are projects where I don't really need collaboration features beyond the simple β€œgive access to the repo to a friend”.

For my main public project I'm currently trying sr.ht: I like it because it uses a mailing-list centric workflow with a web interface, and things like issues etc. are sent to my email address (so I always have a full copy of everything that I could publish at least as a readonly dump).

I would prefer it if it was packaged in debian, and then I could think about self-hosting a sourcehut instance myself, but that can wait.
Daniele Tricoli moved to eriol@akko.mornie.org
I have your identical use case and I was going to the same path (gitolite + cgit) but then I discovered that it's really easy to self host drone so I could also have CI/CD and I went to set up gitea + drone, just for me. Issue are disabled since for myself I discovered that a markdown file for each project is enough.

@clacke@paoloredaelli
@clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’› @Paolo Redaelli
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Paolo Redaelli That was my immediate question too and that was already answered as quoted in https://libranet.de/0b6b25a8-2760-24c3-24da-a93344316197 .

I have full sympathy for "[we're burnt out from doing ops on our own machines]", selfcare and taking care of your own is important, but "[randos on the internet wanted us to do github]", which is how I interpret the answer, is pretty disappointing.

Maybe I'm missing information here, maybe the project has been bleeding contributors for a long time and the only way to get a big enough funnel to convert new contributors is to be on github. But on the surface of it, there seems to be no such analysis.

It's not my project, I've never contributed to SDL, but as the overall picture of how free software is doing, each further project that moves to github is a disappointment.
@Paolo Redaelli
Mans R
I don't see an inherent problem in using Github, Gitlab, Bitbucket, or whatever other commercial service. The problem arises when you become too dependent on the specifics of your chosen service, making it difficult to move elsewhere should you wish to. For example, don't hardcode Github URLs into the software.
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Mans R It is very difficult and almost pointless to use them without making use of features that result in vendor lock-in. Decentralized issue handling that integrates with the proprietary or free-software-but-platform-specific APIs may help.

https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug/ is the only attempt at this that I'm aware of. It can even bridge to JIRA.
@Mans R
Mans R
Any of those services can be used interchangeably as a distribution point for a git repo. The issue trackers are harder to switch, obviously. I assume there's some way of exporting and importing text and basic open/closed status, but a highly customised JIRA setup, for example, is probably impossible to replicate exactly on another system. Another reason to use email as the primary medium.
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Mans R Yeah, if you're just using them as a place to host your repo it would be pretty easy to just put up a cgit. People who say they want Github specifically are looking for people to file drive-by issues and PRs.
@Mans R
Mans R
People who want Github specifically are people I don't want as contributors.
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Mans R Same. Unfortunately SDL is yet another in the long line of free software projects that do, and that's why I'm sad.
@Mans R
Mans R
I didn't know SDL was still a thing.
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Mans R So many things build on top of SDL. pygame, LΓ–VE and Chickadee are what comes to mind immediately. mplayer can use it as an output.
@Mans R
Mans R
Never heard of most of those. Mplayer can go to hell.
Mikolaj Sitarz
BTW anyone tried self-hosted https://gitea.io ? Any comments, advises? Is it worth trying?
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ͺπŸ‡­πŸ‡°πŸ’™πŸ’›
@Mikolaj In a company years ago a colleague, Linux desktop user and developer but not some particularly experienced sysadmin, set up a gogs in an afternoon and it Just Worked. A year later he set up Gitea on a beefier machine and had no issues there either.

I can only imagine it has become easier to use since.
@Mikolaj Sitarz
Daniele Tricoli moved to eriol@akko.mornie.org
Yes I agree, it's easy to set up: the fastest way (if you don't have problem with the added complexity) is to use containers. I'm self hosting for myself, and I chose it because I wanted to self host also CD/CI and it was really easy to self-host drone.io.
pbb
it’s okay and quite easy to maintain if you’re familiar with hosting web services. Be sure to have a well-configured reverse proxy and PostgreSQL, not SQLite.

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